Tuesday, September 23, 2008

lawful deputies, new mexico, 1879



l to r
: billy the kid; doc holliday; jesse james; charles bowdre.
photograph from the
ellison collection.

"Jesse James, Billy the Kid and Doc Holliday were all in Las Vegas, New Mexico in 1879 which is when I believe this photo was taken. The photo depicts four deputised men, one wearing a badge and the other three wearing white bandanas hanging from their pockets representing that they are Peace Officers as the white flag is a symbol of truce. I have done an enormous amount of research on this photo and am still in the process of identifying these men but I am 99% sure they are who I have identified them as being.
Thanks to the help
of many viewers to this website and several historical societies I have been pointed to Doc Holliday and Charlie Bowdre whom I would have overlooked. I was unaware that Doc Holliday was in Las Vegas, NM in 1879 until I was given that information. Las Vegas was the hotbed of activity for outlaws at that time and nearly every well known outlaw went there to carous or even to be peace officers as ranchers were looking for protection for their families and land. Jesse James had a good reason for going to Las Vegas, Scott Moore and his wife Minne owned the Old Adobe Hotel in Las Vegas, New Mexico. Scott Moore was a life long friend of Jesse James having grown up in St. Joseph, Missouri. Jesse James had grown restless in Tennessee and was looking for a new gang and where better to go than were the outlaws are especially when you already have a connection in that town. Billy the Kid was said to have a son, Telesfor Jaramillo."

- Greg Ellison.

Special thanks to Brendan at The Rising Storm for turning me on to Bobby Charles in the first instance. Read his excellent review here.

Written by Bobby Charles. Produced by Bobby Charles, John Simon and Rick Danko.

On an interesting note to admirers of Greenwich Village's Left Banke, Mike Brown's father - session musician and producer, Harry Lookofsky - contributes violin to the album, as do members of The Band; Butterfield Blues Band; Full Tilt Boogie Band; and the backing band for Dr. John.

Pedal Steel on this track is by Ben Keith of Hungry Chick.

BOBBY CHARLES: NEW MEXICO (BONUS TRACK) from "Bobby Charles" LP (Bearsville) 1971 (US)

while the provenance of this photograph has been publicly contested, it has been included in the history channel's biographic, "jesse james' hidden treasure"; screening 6th and 7th December, 2009. See within the comments section below for further detail.

PURCHASE BOBBY CHARLES

123 comments:

Nazz Nomad said...

wow- that's some picture! imagine if they would have all pooled their talents!

ib said...

I know. It's like the kind of temporary alliance guys like Peckinpah or Walter Hill probably dreamed of.

Not only do they look impossibly young and malnourished, as you have every right to expect, it occurs to me that all that's missing is the back-line. It's like an early incarnation of the Dead Boys with Arthur Kane of the New York Dolls.

Ellison's site is amazing.

Greg Ellison said...

Thanks for the encouraging words about the website. We are from the southwest part of Missouri, USA ("the Ozarks") My mother's maiden name was McHaffie (many different spellings) and that part of the family was from Scotland. Evidently we were exiled from there after a little dispute with authority over religious freedom etc. Glad to see there's someone over there that has something good to say about us. Thanks, Greg Ellison

ib said...

Hi, Greg, I'm glad you stopped by. And just a little astounded you found my site.

I am an admirer of old photographs in general, so I was excited when I came across your collection when searching for an image of the James gang. The research you did on the New Mexico photo is a revelation.

Sadly, I am one of those Scots who got left behind in the original exodus, although I am aware of at least one member of my family - on my mother's side - who emigrated to California in the late 1940's after marrying an American.

Even now, Scotland is something of a stain on a generally blighted isle. There is still a tendency to stifle individualism in favor of collective stupidity, despite the political PR. Don't believe the hype.

Really nice to hear from you, Greg. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

That is an interesting photo of four men. I see little if any resemblance to the outlaws and even less research or documentation to prove the identifications on the web site.
The identification is pure speculation rather than academic research... unfortunately.
A quick search of Mr. Ellison's name turns up numerous references to many questionable identifications he has made in the past.
That Abe Lincoln photograph on the Ellison Collection site is laughable!

Greg Ellison said...

The Ellison Collection is now on permanent display at the Ray County Museum just a few miles from the Jesse James Farm. It is also currently being featured in The History Channel documentary Jesse James' Hidden Treasure. You can see the schedule at this link:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=502912
As you can see we still have some childish individuals that are jealous of our success. What can we do but laugh at them?

Greg Ellison
www.theellisoncollection.com

ib said...

I don't have cable or direct access to the History Channel, but I am heartened to hear that the photograph has been featured. Thanks for the link, Greg.

I will amend the original post to include it.

The controversy this photograph has prompted is fascinating.

Anonymous said...

What is the source for this statement on the photograph:

"wearing white bandanas hanging from their pockets representing that they are Peace Officers as the white flag is a symbol of truce."

Anonymous said...

"I don't have cable or direct access to the History Channel, but I am heartened to hear that the photograph has been featured."

Exactly how many and which photographs from the "collection" were "featured"? Was this one on the show? And by "featured" do you mean a second or two in the frame or a discussion of any one particular photograph?

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

The photo that you show isn't shown on on The History Channel documentary but others from our collection were and more may be in the future. They asked for the use of fourteen photos from our collection which we gladly granted to them. Our entire collection is on a rotating schedule at the Ray County Museum in Richmond, Missouri right in the heart of Jesse James Country. As you stated, our research is posted on our website and speaks for itself. I refuse to answer questions posted by someone who obviously has an axe to grind. If you have any questions about our collection please feel free to ask.

Take care,
Greg Ellison
www.theellisoncollection.com

Anonymous said...

"our research is posted on our website and speaks for itself"

More correctly the lack of research speaks volumes.

My favorite is the Jesse and Frank James photograph that you were able to ID through:

1) The one guys feet are smaller than the other guys.
2) The one guy tucks his boots into his pants
3) The one guy is covering one of his fingers

Yes, Mr. Ellison you are quite the researcher!

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Now you see why I have to laugh at these guys. They think by cherry picking a line or two from my website that they are actually proving something. BTW, all of the above points mentioned from my website by "Anonymous" are very valid and pertinant to any research on Jesse James as any good Jesse James researcher would know. You can see that "Anonymous" is just a jealous person which is why he is posting under "Anonymous".

Greg Ellison
www.theellisoncollection.com

Anonymous said...

I didn't cherry pick a few lines-- I gave a synopsis of your entire "proof" that the photographs was Frank and Jesse James!

That is the reason that your "research" is questionable. It is really lacking in detailed analysis.

For all to see, here is the entire text of your five sentence "analysis" of the photograph from your web site: "Here is a picture of Jesse and Frank James with Bob Younger from my collection. Notice that Jesse's shoes are a few sizes smaller than Franks. It was recorded by several sources that Jesse had very small feet. Also notice Jesse's injured finger that he is trying to hide by covering it with his pinky finger. Remember that tintypes are reverse images so that is his left hand. Dick Liddil said at Frank's trial that Jesse wore his pant legs inside his boots and that the first digit of the third finger was missing on Jesse's left hand which would be his ring finger as in my tintype."

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

As you can tell, "Anonymous" is a stalker that follows me to every website that I post on and he has done this for years hiding behind many fake names. He simply Googles my name to find me since I always post under my name as I am a respectful website owner. If a living human is going to make accusations against another living human he should be aware of moral standards and list his corrct name as I do. I apologize for this intrusion of your blog. It is obvious that this person does not understand that my website is for the purpose of letting the public view my collection, not a resource for all of the doucumatation and provenance that accompanies the collection. Each images has a brief description with some obvious provenance. Even with that, my website offers more proof of the images than any other site you will find on Jesse James images. I have a provenance page that is only available to those who ask to see it. I plainly state on my homepage that if you have any questions you can e-mail us. This person has never bothered to do that as he only wants to slander us in public.

Take care,
Greg Ellison
www.theellisoncollection.com

Anonymous said...

I would hardly call pointing out the issues with poorly researched photographs slander!

I would hardly call someone a stalker, because they disagree with your identification.

This Mr. Ellison's usual technique. Rather than defend or explain his identifications and research, he attacks the person questioning.

You have a long and varied history of mis- identified photographs.

Put the dog to rest-- post your entire analysis here on the Frank and Jesse photograph, so all can see.

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

I would be more than happy to meet "Annoymous's" needs if he would simply come clean on his identity and prove that he is a true Jesse James researcher and not a stalker that is simply chasing me to try to defame me. The one thing that is abundantly clear in his postings is that he is not interested in Jesse James but only in me. He can easily email me at zeke15@sbcglobal.net. He will neither come clean or email me.

Take care,
Greg Ellison

Anonymous said...

As I thought-- Mr. Ellison apparently has no other analysis of this particular photograph.

Wouldn't it have been simple to copy and post it here and silence me that way... IF only the research and evidence existed!

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

I'm glad that "Anonymous" used the word "apparently" as he admits that he really has no idea of anything. He "apparently" doesn't understand the simple phrase "email me at zeke15@sbcglobal.net" either. He always proves me right with his post. That is one of his downfalls.

Greg Ellison

Anonymous said...

I don't wish to carry on an email exchange with you.

If more analysis and research existed, why wouldn't you want to show it?

The folks on this forum are probably asking the same thing.

Post the facts... and show everyone.

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

"Anonymous" just said it all. He isn't concerned about finding out about my research at all. If he were it shouldn't matter to him how it he receives it. He is admitting that he only cares about harassing me. What is he hiding from? Why doesn't he want your fellow Scot's to know who he is? The good folks on your forum know that they can email me at anytime and receive an answer to their questions. The truth is that "Anonymous" doesn't want anybody to know who he is. Why does such a shyster think they can make demands on good people that post with their real names when they refuse to do so themselves? He has done nothing since he first posted here but make unfounded
accusations. That is a trademark of his.

Take care,
Greg Ellison

Anonymous said...

Once again Mr. Ellison has shown that his identifications are simply guesses with no historical research.

Given numerous opportunities to show proof, he has passed.

Mr. Ellison is the one who claimed he had additonally evidence. Why now is he unwilling to produce the evidence?

What is he hiding? Poor or nonexistent research?

Take a look at the research on his Ma Barker photograph: Well first off, the photograph is marked as "Parker"-- he surmises that was to hide the real identity! Next he compares the photograph to photos taken 15 to 20 years later.

Well no, actually he doesn't do any comparison or analysis-- he simply posts them next to his photograph!

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Neal Boortz said on his radio show just this morning "Only answer the serious charges. Do no waste you time with the foolish charges". I couldn't agree more. Mr. "Anonymous" has been given mutiple ways to receive the information that he claims to desire yet has refused to accept them. This foolishness from "Anonymous" will not stop as he has stalked me to every forum that I have posted on for the past five years and attemps to slander me and my collection on all of them while hiding behind a hidden identity. If he truly wants the information that he says he desires I will provide that here for all to see if he only admits who he is and gives a provable ID as I do.

Take care,
Greg Ellison

ib said...

Well. I confess I've been preoccupied with other matters these last few days, although i have followed these colorful exchanges with some fascination.

It strikes me that in this instance the burden of proof lies with with the detracting party, and as such it does not help his (or her) case in choosing to pass judgment anonymously.

I myself have had my share of scurrilous - and anonymous - attacks in the past. Therefore, my sympathies - not unjustly - lie with those who declare themselves publicly.

I might add that I have no cause to take sides beyond that observation. I have no axe to grind. I stumbled upon this particular photograph on Mr. Ellison's site quite by accident, and - in his defense, if defense were needed - he certainly at no time objected to my utilizing it freely.

Whatever the provenance - and I have no cause to dispute Mr. Ellison's claims - the photograph, and its premise, is intriguing. Sufficiently so that I opted to 'purloin' the image from Mr. Ellison's online collection and use it here.

I have taken note that this one photograph has not been 'corroborated' by its inclusion on the History Channel, but I am heartened nonetheless that those researchers approached the Ellison Collection for other images relating to Jesse James for their documentary.

I shall amend the annotation to the original post in due course.

And, if I am fortunate enough to pay visit to the United States at some future date, you can be assured that I would enjoy checking in on the Ray County Museum.

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Thank you for a very respectful comment. If you do happen to make it over here please let me know. I would love to meet someone who still lives in the homeland. Our dream is to come to Scotland but it is hard to find the time when our family depends on us for many things.

Greg Ellison

Bill said...

A YouTube video regarding "The Ellison Collection" and some of Mr. Ellison's other activities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHYBkPyT080

Bill Dodd

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Bill Dodd is an anonymous name used by one of the three or four guys that continually harrass my collection and I. They have now put together a video to defame my collection that offers no proof of their statements. They also included a photo of Jesse James owned by the National Portrait Gallery in Washington D.C. and claim that it is a fake and that the curators are ignorant. They show court records from lawsuits that were due to my wife's head-on collision with a man who did not have insurance as proof that I am a crook. That is how warped their thinking is. All of the suits were settled in our favor.

I apologize that your forum has been attacked by these uniformed, uneducated bullies. As I have said before, they stalk me from forum to forum just to harrass me.

Take care over there,

Greg Ellison

Jason said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joFrneiRZn8
The guy is definitely a fraud and that collection nobody takes seriously. Ellison is a known crook. Be warned.

Anonymous said...

Jason,

Your nasty little video has been removed multiple times by YouTube for TOS violations and you have sent me several death threats through my personal email that are under investigation. Give it up! You look foolish!

Greg Ellison

Jason said...

Greg,

Just google your name. I didn't make any videos for YTube. But there are at least two on there about you. You're a joke. Stop trying to sell fake images and get a real job. Thanks.

Greg Ellison said...

The Truth About the Photo:

http://theellisoncollection.com/gallery.php?gid=85

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

The real truth about that debunked photo with link provided below the videos proving it's not who the known scammer says they are -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAd9uhzyMj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9YHHBXxa0

Yet another case of fraud.

Anonymous said...

Frank Cole,

You are only proving your insanity by posting your little Atomic Clown video! You are only posting here because you are kicked off of every forum on the internet.

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

Says the fraud with the criminal record as shown in that video. Last I checked you were given the boot by Butch, Bob Boze Bell, Bj and even ebay. See what scamming people and making trouble does for you, fraud? You're the joke of the historical community -- hence why no reputable or honest historian supports you. Just ask around. They'll remind you of that fact.

:-)

Greg Ellison said...

Frank Cole,

That's why I am not affraid to use my real name and face down the idiots that are hiding behind fake names like you. You are all proven liars!

Greg Ellison
www.theellisoncollection.com

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

But afraid to answer any basic questions and avoid all proof and evidence against you and your longtime scam. Don't make me laugh.

Facts don't lie. Only you do. The evidence is all right there. You're pretty much banned from everywhere you try to promote your scam because so. Your fake letter didn't help you after all. Funny how reality checks work, huh? :-)

Say, how about answering those questions in that video or showing your degree in facial identification or letting those you scammed know which of the 25 images of your fake collection Phil Steele supposedly verified? Duh...duh duhh.. You buy random old photos and try to pass them off as dead celebrities just to cash in on their name. How low can you go, scammer? Get a real job. Fraud isn't cool.

Frank said...

Anyone who knows the history of the West probably instantly recognizes this image. When Jesse James abandoned his children and his wife and his family, he freebooted himself west to Las Vegas. Jesse had in mind to re-establish his faded and flawed career as the high wire attraction his Civil War life on the partisan trapeze had prepared him to be. Jesse fancied himself as the focus of attention by adoring vacationers who would come from all those places where formerly he had been hunted as an outlaw. He also fancied the tigers and ostrich plumed showgirls from France he expected to surrounded him and keep him safe.

In Las Vegas, Jesse was welcomed warmly by Ted Binion. Binion convinced Jesse to stop hiding his gold & hidden treasure in Oklahoma. Instead, Binion offered Jesse to stash his gold and hidden treasure inside a new machine Binion had installed in the center of his Casino for Dudes & Dudettes. Binion assured Jesse that, even though the public could see all of Jesse's treasure through a glass window, the stash would be in the safest spot possible, because every time someone pulled the machine's trigger to get the money, no one ever got anything out of the machine.

Ted Binion convinced Jesse James he would need an act. The Knights of the Golden Circle were due in town shortly for a secret convention in an undisclosed location. Binion knew about this from rocks with ciphered messages he had found in the desert. For all he knew, Binion said, they could be in Las Vegas already. The Knights needed to be hosted and entertained, and what the KGC liked best was inexplicable rituals. So Binion introduced Jesse James to Larry, Curley, & Moe.

As seen here, Jesse James posed with Larry, Curley, & Moe in this photograph meant to promote the new act, the image taken during Jesse's rehearsals with the trio. Shortly after this picture was taken, the KGC informed Binion they had enjoyed the act and planned to adopt some of its features in their programs. The KGC left town as unnoticed as they had arrived.

The name of the act -- Larry, Curley, & Moe, starring Jesse James -- just didn't have enough ring to draw a crowd. Once more, Jesse faced failure in his life. Having run off from everyone he knew, Jesse was alone in his world, without friends...until Binion introduced Jesse to Bugsy Siegal.

Bugsy was opening a new operation on the Las Vegas Strip. He needed some new acts. Bugsy asked Jesse, Can you sing? Only hymns, Jesse replied. No Good, said Bugsy. Can you dance, Bugsy asked. I can do a fast shuffle out of town, said Jesse. Doesn't work me, said Bugsy. What can you do, asked Bugsy. Jesse replied, well, I've got this gang, or half a gang. The other half's in prison. We rob banks. Gang, asked Bugsy. I already got a guy with a gang, named Sinatra. Finally, Bugsy Siegal advised Jesse James to leave Las Vegas, go out on the road, and work up an act. He assured Jesse, no matter if Jesse was wheeled back into his showroom on a gurney, Bugsy would hold open a spot for Jesse in his show.

So Jesse James disappeared from Las Vegas. He hit the rode, disguising himself as J. Frank Dalton. Then he got the idea to make himself famous -- as himself. He got some roadies, and together they wheeled Jesse all around America on a gurney, whipping up a crowd of gullible curiosity seekers. By the time Jesse James had perfected his act and felt ready to return to Las Vegas, Bugsy Siegal had been murdered. Ted Binion was dead. And Larry, Curley, & Moe were gone.

Jesse James died anonymously, as J. Frank Dalton. His show biz career never did get off the ground. But thank goodness for all those pictures of him that have survived the years. Without them, people would probably think he actually was killed by Bob Ford.

Sound crazy? Not in the mind of an infamous crook from Missouri!

Greg Ellison said...

Frank Cole,

This photo is popular throughout the world and there is nothing you or you stupid little lying video's can do about it! The photo is posted on websites all over the internet and has already been published several times and the only negative comments I get are from you and your half dozen minions!

The FBI is hot on your trail for making those death threats to me and my family and to members of my forum. This is your last haven to spew your nonsense! Your time is short!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

You really are pathetic. So, in other words, you feel proud about scamming people with that photo of young men. Jesse was 3 years from the time of his death from 1879 to 1882. He wasn't a boy and he certainly didn't look like that kid -- nor do the rest of the outlaws you claim to be in that stupid photo.

You have no proof. Just a bs story that leads nowhere. Did you really think it was just a coincidence that no one takes you or your fake photos seriously? Time to wake up, scammer.

You really do wish that photo was popular but in reality, its popularity only goes as far as your pea-sized mind. The videos presented debunk your photo and your bogus collection that everyone makes fun of. Again, which of the 25 photos did Phil Steele supposedly identify? Show us all your degree in facial identification and where exactly your get your fake history from. Or would you rather run from my questions some more like the coward you know you are? :-)

Greg's motto is "It's not a lie if you believe it".

Yeah. The "FBI"...Please, you old fool. You can bark and threaten me all you want but it never goes anywhere. You really never could take your own medicine. Now save your pink colored keyboard from that bs already and end it. You'll be going away for fraud before anyone else does. Just take a look at your criminal record presented in those links directly to those Missouri courts. Again, they don't lie. Only you do. Your scamming days are over. :-)

Alex said...

There is no provenance for that image. I don't see how anyone (especially any historian) would take it seriously. Mr. Ellison has a a terrible reputation for a reason.

Frank said...

Alex,

Well said. No provenance indeed. People should really do their homework and study the facts of history and historically accepted photos so they don't fall for these scammers' con games. It's a shame what these frauds are trying to do to history and those ignorant to it. Completely Un-American. :-)

Greg Ellison said...

These are the same two losers that have tried for months/years to discredit my collection to no avail. My collection has more provenance that any other Jesse James image collection as no other accepted image of Jesse James has any family connection to the outlaws family. They will continue to whine a cry like the crybabies they are as expected!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Speaking of crying. Sill wiping those tears because no believes you? lol

But your collection doesn't have any credit, scammer. Where is your provenance? Where is your degree in facial identification? Which of the 25 photos did Phil Steele supposedly approve? Your fake letter isn't considered provenance and no historian will ever back it or you up. You know this. Stop pretending.

It's as pathetic as this photo you're trying to scam people with. :-)

Evade and dodge again and again. No matter how many times you spin your excuses, it will always make you look like the desperate con and coward you are. You can't take just any photo you want and pass it off as some dead celebrity without having something to back it up. You have nothing. Not even historical records or matching photos proving your lies. Use a little common sense, fraud. ;-)

Alex said...

Frank,

Look at the way this guy acts. That is why he isn't ever taken seriously. What adult acts that way?

The same behavior of a brat not getting his way. Ellison is a cartoon.

Greg Ellison said...

The History Channel believes me!

The Ray County Museum believes me!

The James Farm and Museum believes me!

The Richamnond Daily News believes me!

417 Magazine believes me even after all of your lies to them!

James Historian Phillip W. Steele belives me!

The Clay County Leader believes me!

SibLINGSHOT ON THE BLEACHERS
believes me as seen above!

And the list goes on and on and on.....The Ellison Collection is published world wide!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

You conned the History Channel though. Your fake images were featured on a discredited program about another fake death hoax of Jesse James. It went nowhere. You also conned the Ray County Museum. The James Farm Museum has nothing to do with you. Its members can verify that. Jesse James's own great granddaughter Betty Barr didn't recognize your fake images.

:-)

All news and media outlets you tried to scam also denied you. Your scams were brought to attention by 417 and ebay.

Phil Steele didn't have anything to do with you. You concocted a fake letter and a fake signature when the man had Alzheimers up until his death and took advantage of the man's name. After all, which of the 25 images did he supposedly verify? Still no answer, fraud?

This site is only going by your word which has no proof or evidence supporting your claim. You prey on those ignorant to your scam. That's your con game. And if anyone actually believes you, your scam then obviously paid off. You get off on that. Everyone knows, crook. ;-)

You have no background in academic or historical research and zero documentation supporting this laughable photo. You have no provenance nor a degree in facial identification either. That spells it out pretty clear. You're a fraud. Except it.

Frank said...

Nothing but the facts. Accept* it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAd9uhzyMj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9YHHBXxa0


No wonder you try to scam people. You're hard up for money!

http://springfield.craigslist.org/hss/2078658845.html

How many "door knobs" and "broom sticks" will you polish this year for Christmas? See how far your fake collection got you?

So much for striking it rich with fake photos. haha!

Tess said...

Obvious fake. By the logic of this photograph Jesse would have aged backwards.

http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/james15a.html

This was Jesse's last portrait taken in 1875. He wouldn't have looked that young or come down in height four years later. The others don't share any resemblance either. Who is this guy kidding? Nice try.

Anonymous said...

Greg,

After viewing your photo on your website of Jesse James, Billy the Kid and Doc Holliday I have several questions to ask you. You said that you are 99% sure of your identifications. But I’m not sure what provenance you have for the image because you don’t list anything about the picture or its history. So I believe these are fair questions to ask;

1) What kind of process was used to produce this? Is it an ambrotype, cdv, tintype or cabinet card?

2) What in the image supports your 1879 dating? Certain articles of clothing would help to narrow down the date. Approximately what year does their clothing date to?

3) Is there an identifying back mark identifying the photographer or studio? That would narrow down the geographic location of where the picture was taken.

4) Where did you buy this and who was the seller? As a casual observer for all I know the picture may have been taken in Canada.

Bernie

Greg Ellison said...

Bernie and Tess,

I am sorry but I can not take anyone serious that is the least bit supportive of Frank Cole and his personal attacks on me. If you are serious and really want to discuss this image you can do so by contacting me through my website at http://theellisoncollection.com/ . I doubt that I hear from either of you.

Frank Cole is a stalker and is being pursued by the FBI at this very moment.

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Bernie and Tess,

He won't answer your questions. He'll find some way to evade them and spin the discussion until he insults you. He's already proven that he doesn't have anything supporting his images. His website is full of lies and misidentified photos with no documentation supporting them or his bogus claims. This is a fact.

He also cries fowl whenever someone questions him or denies his photos. He's interrupted history forums and old west message boards all across the web. He also uses aliases when he gets banned and blocked out of these message boards. The members of The James Farm's Delphi Forum, True West Magazine, ebay and BJ's Tombstone all have this scammer's number and will gladly confirm him as a troublemaker and con man.

Ellison is a lunatic and exposes himself everywhere he goes.

Frank

Anonymous said...

Greg,

The questions I asked you were both honest and fair.

You put your picture on a public website but now you’re refusing to publicly answer questions about it? What’s up with that?

In my opinion that is wrong and if you don’t want to answer those simple questions on this forum then you should remove your image.

Bernie

Anonymous said...

Greg,

Why are you insulting me? My questions were honest & fair.

I don't understand why you're acting this way.

Why won't you pubicly answer some questions about a photo in your collection?

Bernie

ib said...

Indeed.

Had Greg Ellison not replied to Bernie's query so promptly, I would have intervened to remind one and all that the image posted here - from Mr. Ellison's private collection - was originally posted here of my own volition, with links to the 'Ellison Collection', as then published.

It remains here - with Greg Ellison's kind consent - as a measure of my fascination with both a wonderful photograph and the storm of controversy aroused by Mr. Ellison's claims. All of which is quite obvious - as Greg rightly points out - to any individual capable of following a thread from inception through to invited commentary.

Anonymous said...

Ib,

I have been remiss in not thanking you for your hospitality in hosting this website. I truly appreciate the opportunity you provide us to post messages here. Thank You!

I frankly do not care about what image Mr. Ellison privately decides to tag with a historical name. However, when that picture is presented to the public as 99% authentic, I do believe the claimant should be prepared to support their position.

I must say that Greg Ellison’s refusal or inability to respond to my simple and fair questions is confounding. Simply put, I would hope that Ellison’s claims of his recently discovered photograph of Jesse James, Billy the Kid and Doc Holliday would include some provenance addressing the journalistic standards of “who, what where and when”.
His response or lack thereof on this board would seem to indicate a deficiency of provenance. That matter can only be addressed with complete good faith answers which he might provide but have not yet been forthcoming.

Thank You,

Bernie

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Thank you for your kind words and understanding of the obvious attacks on me. I know who these guys are and they have harrassed me for years and do not care one bit about the photo in question. You can see by the post from months ago on this forum that these are the same people only now they have different names.

I see that "Bernie" is now sucking up to you which is a trait of one of the people that harrass me when he thinks he is losing his standing with the owner of the blog.

"Bernie" has been given ample ways to find the answers to his question but childishly refuses.

Some things never change!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

What did I tell ya? Ellison again evades and dodges simple questions. He doesn't have any answers for them simply because whatever he comes up with will further expose his lies and scams.

Yet again he spins the argument into personal attacks because he knows he has zero documentation or proof for this image. This is one of the main reasons why he isn't supported or welcome in the historical community or backed by historians.

He always backs himself into a corner. You're dealing with a fraud here, Bernie. You won't get any straight or honest answers.

Greg Ellison said...

Frank Cole is to ignorant to understand that I say that this photo isn't 100% verified and that it is a very interesting photo. I believe it represents the people that I identify it as representing. The photo is it's own proof! The interior of the building matches the architecture in New Mexico at the time and so does the way the men are dressed. All of these men were proven to have been in Las Vegas, New Mexico the very same week in 1879 and that is why this photo is a world wide sensation!

Sorry Frank, but that is the truth, like it or not!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

A "world-wide sensation" in your head maybe and that's as far as it goes. Anyway, it's verification isn't what you claimed on other forums. It may be interesting on its own but not as something it's trying to be passed off as. The photo itself proves you WRONG as Tess states it would be almost as if Jesse de-aged in a Benjamin Button sort of way. The real images of the men you claim look nothing like the boys in that photo. Just as Tess pointed out with Jesse -- his real image proves you and that photo wrong.

;-)

Let's not forget that you have NO documentation nor ANY provenance for the photo. You also don't have a degree in facial identification so how can you claim the photo is it's "own proof" without any proof to back that claim? So much for it not being 100%! It's amazing that you don't see the absurdity in that and the stupidity in the way of your thinking. Think before you type! lol


Where was it proven that these men were in Vegas? After all, this photo presents BOYS not MEN. Do you even know where the actual men REALLY were? Do your homework!

Now, present some actual PROOF for this image and show some documentation. Do you know why you can't? It's because there is none. The photo isn't of Jesse, Charlie, Billy or Doc. That's a fact. And that's why it will never sell or be the hit you desperately want it to be.

Take it to an historian and see how far it gets. Stop trying to scam people with bogus images, fraud. It isn't worth going to jail over. ;-)

Frank said...

http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blogs/scammed-by-an-outlaws-photo?xg_source=activity

A few months ago Ellison tried to scam a young women with this rejected image. She made people aware of him and his scam on the True West Magazine site.

Ellison has been banned from there for about a year now for causing trouble, threatening people and for running his scam. The moderator of the forums there Bob Boze Bell dealt with him swiftly and booted him off...a good few times actually. Ellison tried coming back with multiple names but he didn't get far.

Greg Ellison said...

That little bitch will have what she has coming. Believe you me! Her little slanderous blog will only hurt her in the end. SoapySmith will be staying very warm this winter and out of a home after his slanderous remarks to.

Bet on that!

Greg Ellison

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

I'm sure you know me well enough to know that I would never leave a message such as the one above by an imposter pretending to be me. Frank Cole has done this same thing on other forums and only shows how childish he really is.

Thank you,

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Huh? Oh right. Blame everyone else for your threats and temper, church janitor. Same old fraud with the same old routine on every forum that kicked him off.

Where's the documentation for this kids photo?

Where does it state where it was taken? When was it taken? Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's your degree in facial identification?

Still no answer for the good people here, Greg? Come on now.

Present something to defend and support your bogus claim!

ib said...

Since the above exchanges are 'anonymous' - in the respect that those posting comments have neither a verifiable Blogger identity, or OpenID (Wordpress, etc) - the process is wide open to the potential for impersonation. An interesting development, in that much of the discourse threatens to eclipse th Earp-Clanton feud in which Doc, himself, played no small part.

I mention this only by way of casual observation. I have little doubt that Greg Ellison is innocent of this recent offensive (yet colourful) remark.

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

You are right about that. The Earp-Clanton feud did not last nearly as long as this feud has been going on and I see no end in sight as they will continue to cry and whine even though it does them absolutely no good. The image, with Doc in it, continues to gain fame across the world much like the men involved in the Earp-Clanton feud. Your point is well taken.

Take care,

Greg Ellison

Anonymous said...

Hey Ellison,

I asked a few fair and honest questions about this picture and I never referred to you with any degrading comments. And how did you respond to that? Ellison, you accused me of attacking you, harassing you, ‘sucking up’ and acting childish.

This could’ve been a productive discussion but its been ruined by your refusal to provide any public answers to my questions in coupled with your immature behavior that triggered your unprovoked verbal assault on my character.

I wonder if perhaps you have absolutely no provenance for this photo. Heck, you won’t even publicly answer the simplest of questions! I wonder why?

Given your behaviour on this forum it’s now my opinion that your entire collection is suspect and I wonder if all you do is eyeball a photo and make a declaration without doing any research? But I doubt you’ll ever answer any questions about that!

Bernie

Anonymous said...

Ib,

This is my last post on your forum. I will not suffer anymore personal and slanderous attacks on my character simply because I asked a few fair and honest questions.

I don’t know what the problem is with Greg Ellison and honestly don’t care. But whatever that is, it’s now your headache to deal with.

Bernie

Greg Ellison said...

Bernie,

If you can not see that I have been harrassed on this forum and that I gave you an avenue to ask your questions and get your ansers then I can not help you. I must ask, why you feel the need to get "public answers"? Everything you do convinces me that you are just one of their players and I'm not playing! If you had emailed me like I suggested then I could have trusted you and we could have a public discussion. You chose not to.

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Yet again Ellison spins the discussion just to evade simple questions. He simply doesn't have the answers for them because he doesn't have the proof or documentation to back them up.

He'd rather use his con man charm and get you into personal email so he can threaten you and cuss you out for not believing his lies and scams. His behavior speaks for itself.

Again -

Where's the documentation for this kids photo?

Where does it state where it was taken? When was it taken? Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?

Come on now, Greg. Put up or shut up.

Greg Ellison said...

Frank Cole,

You know who I am so I'll make a deal with you. Give me your confirmed name and expertise that gives you the right to question me and then I will discuss anything you want to in public!

It is now time for you to put up or shut up and we will discuss it like real men! My bet is you won't come through!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Again you evade and dodge simple questions... I'm Frank Cole. I have a BA in History from Brown U.

What are your credentials besides the custodial arts and buying random photos from ebay and passing them off as dead celebrities? What are you so afraid of?

Again -

Where's the documentation for this kids photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?

Come on now, Greg. Put up or shut up. You're really making a fool out of yourself. Even ib knows you're not innocent. Get to those answers. ;-)

Greg Ellison said...

Frank Cole,

Since you couldn't prove your real name how do you defend your Fake Names being banned by the staff of Delphi forums so many times?

• Aliasjones Oct-25
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Greg Ellison

Frank said...

You'd be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle, church janitor. Look what the image scammer is doing again. He's trying to spin the argument with these fake names so he can get out of answering basic questions.

But then again, the image scammer doesn't have a lot of room to talk after all his aliases were kicked off and banned from every forum he tried to disgrace.

Let's see his alias list:

Tombstone_Annie
Zeke
Zeke15
crowhance
Tom Howard
David Farmington
Ted

Am I missing any? Better check with True West, Delphi and BJ's Tombstone forum just to make sure.

Pot meet kettle indeed!

Now, back on the issue.

What are your credentials besides the custodial arts and buying random photos from ebay and passing them off as dead celebrities? What are you so afraid of?

Again -

Where's the documentation for this kids photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?

Come on now, Greg. Put up or shut up. You're really making a fool out of yourself. Even ib knows you're not innocent. Get to those answers. ;-)

Greg Ellison said...

No Frank Cole,

I am proving to all that you are a stalker and will continue to stalk even after you are banned over and over from the forums you post on by using fake emails and names! Ha!

That is why the questions you pose are useless coming from a con man like you as anyone with common sense can see!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Says the guy using fake names and emails! I see you still haven't fixed that hole in your head. lol

You actually prove time and time again that you're a liar and a fraud out scamming people ignorant to these photos. Bernie tried to be nice and engage in an actual discussion but you again turned it around just to dodge it all. I'm not the one out trying to con people with fake photos. I have too much respect for people and to history, unlike YOU. :-)

Now, back on the issue.

What are your credentials besides the custodial arts and buying random photos from ebay and passing them off as dead celebrities? What are you so afraid of?

Again -

Where's the documentation for this kids photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?

Come on now, church janitor. Put up or shut up. You're really making a fool out of yourself. Even ib knows you're not innocent. Get to those answers. ;-)

John said...

"That is why the questions you pose are useless coming from a con man like you as anyone with common sense can see!"

Your not even trying to make sense. You brought this photograph here. What do you have to show for it? I call fake.

Greg Ellison said...

John,

I didn't bring the picture here. The owner of the blog, ib, brought it here because it interest him as it does many, many other people throughout the world. If you would take the time to read through the thread you will see that Frank has made his statements repeatedly under different names from the begining. I can't even imagine someone taking his side with the evidence that exist against him but followers will be followers!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Wrong. Actually, you preyed on ib here just like you do to everyone that isn't familiar with history and historical photos.

What evidence are you referring to about me? I, like everyone else here, is just asking legitimate and honest questions about your ridiculous photo. It's not our fault that they're too difficult for you to understand and answer.

Again -

Where's the documentation for this kids photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?

Put up or shut up.

ib said...

Gentlemen, please. Allow me to intervene with merely an observation.

The crux of a all this vitriol, it seems to me, lies not in that so and so alleges this, or so and so refutes it - as the result of provenance, structured counterclaim, empirical science - but in the thorny question of ownership, or the lengths that persons will go to in 'bagging' a shot.

What drew me, in the first instance, to this wonderful photograph was the quality of the image itself - subjective - and the speculation that all four of theses men might have occupied the same space at one and the same time. A thrilling proposition, any interested party must admit.

I republished from Mr. Ellison's website without first seeking approval. Mr. Ellison, for his part, was good enough not to insist that I promptly remove the image. A fact I find most cordial and understanding, without questioning the motive.

Mr. Ellison speculates that the persons in the photograph are thus. This is wholly good enough - of fascination - to me.

As to the process of securing provenance and watertight validity, who is the judge, and what motivation ? The image itself is splendid. As to the question of "ownership", who owns it and who has any axe to grind? Those young men in the photograph ? Dead and otherwise forgotten. The photographer or studio ? Doubtless the same.

Or those seeking to make profit from transaction and private ownership ?

Me. Ellison speculates. I see no ill in that.

Greg Ellison said...

Frank,

ib posted the photo without my knowledge as can be easily seen at the beginning of this thread. Below are ib's later remarks explaining you.

Greg Ellison

ib said...
Since the above exchanges are 'anonymous' - in the respect that those posting comments have neither a verifiable Blogger identity, or OpenID (Wordpress, etc) - the process is wide open to the potential for impersonation. An interesting development, in that much of the discourse threatens to eclipse th Earp-Clanton feud in which Doc, himself, played no small part.

I mention this only by way of casual observation. I have little doubt that Greg Ellison is innocent of this recent offensive (yet colourful) remark.

December 9, 2010 7:39 PM

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

We posted at the same time. Thank you for making your statement. You are right. I offer the image that I own to the world for the enjoyment in finding the mystery of the photo.

All of the hatred isn't about the image. It is about a grudge these guys have against me from long ago when I exposed their lies.

You have a very good grasp on the situation!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

He says he doubts you're innocent. I got that.

Let's stick to the questions at hand.

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's your degree in facial identification?

This photo is obviously not who you claim they are. This is especially true since you have nothing to support your claim. As Tess pointed out, the boy in your photo is not of Jesse James as compared to Jesse James' real and historically accepted photo taken around 1875. The rest of the boys aren't the men you claim them to be either. Not only is there no resemblance, but the history doesn't add up either.

You basically take any image and claim it's something it's not -- without any proof or documentation supporting it. Don't you see what's wrong with that? This image, like the rest of them, doesn't match historically accepted photos, nor the history of the men you claim these boys are. This is why people ask these questions and find you very suspect.

If you're going to make these claims, you should be able to provide some proof for them. Is that too much to ask?

ib may be interested in the photo, but he really needs to take a look at it compared to historically accepted images of the men they're claimed to be and do some more research on the history and whereabouts of the actual men the owner of the photo claims they are. Simple research is all that's acquired to find the truth of the matter.

And in the truth, you will find this is bogus. Like Bernie pointed out, it could have been taken in Canada for all anyone knows. No place or date to be found. Who are you trying to kid here? lol

Frank said...

Where and how does the fascination lie with nothing supporting it but your word which amounts to nothing? The actual "mystery" of the photo is who they really are --not who you claim them to be.

:-)

By your logic, you can taken any unknown photo and make up a story and pass it off as something it's not. That is wrong any way you slice it.

This is about you and your countless times of scamming people with misidentified photos. jb here isn't aware of your scam and bad reputation throughout the web and mainly around the historical community. Again, you can't make a claim about something without showing some sort of proof for it. You're a liar and your dodging simple questions from the people here proves you to be a liar.

Thanks for showing you have nothing supporting your claim or this bogus image. ;-)

Get a clue, fraud!

Frank said...

ib, you need to be brought up to speed about Greg Ellison here -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9YHHBXxa0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAd9uhzyMj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma9e4a9s7Qo

As you can see, the guy is a known crook and he's pretty happy that he's trying to dupe you with his fake and misidentified photos. He isn't going to give your blog a good rep after he's done here. Be warned.

ib said...

Frank, Frank, Frank.

Frankly. You exaperate me. Take some pause, for a second, and digest what I said. Jesus, if that don't f@ckin' work, I'm gonna haveta shoot yer ass outta Dodge, pardner.

Be warned, my f@ckin' ass.

Ka-pow!

Frank said...

ib,

Don't be so defensive, Junior. I'm actually here to help you and educate others -- just as Bernie and Tess have with honest questions.

I understood what you posted perfectly. The photo interests you. But since there is nothing supporting the claim of the photo, there is no room for interest on that particular subject.

You have a misidentified photo of a group of kids with sashes. No date. No location. No matching historically accepted photos. No provenance or documentation to show for either. That spells it out pretty clear, pard.

Now how do you feel about it again?

;-)

Greg Ellison said...

Frank,

Go back to Butch's forum and kiss everyones ass there. I don't need anyone to to support me! You will get no sympathy here. Soapy and Alyssa will get theirs before too long just like you! Can you dodge bullets? I'm gunnin for your ass soon! HA!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Colorful remarks there, Greg. Your threats don't bother me -- Never have. As the above pointed out -

"This Mr. Ellison's usual technique. Rather than defend or explain his identifications and research, he attacks the person questioning. You have a long and varied history of mis- identified photographs. Put the dog to rest-- post your entire analysis here on the photograph, so all can see.

Mr. Ellison apparently has no other analysis of this particular photograph. Wouldn't it have been simple to copy and post it here and silence me that way... IF only the research and evidence existed!"

Nothing but the truth of this fraud, fraud, fraud. Is this forum now endorsing fraudulent photos?

Frank said...

After being directed to Mr. Ellisons website and seeing his information about this photo I have completely change my mind and concur totally with his findings.

I hadn't realized that evidence exist that all four of these men were in Las Vegas, New Mexico during the same week in 1879 and that Doc Holliday owned a saloon there at that time.

I was also unaware that this was confirmed by a former governor of New Mexico and a person that later held a national government office at the white house.

Seeing the comparison images was the tell all for me. I was shocked at the resemblance to the men in the image.

I now believe Mr. Ellison is being generous by only allowing a 99% possiblity of the photo being who he thinks it is. His site sure convinced me.

Frank Cole

Frank said...

I was looking further at Mr. Ellison site and saw that the boyhood friend of Jesse James, Scott Moore, owned and operated the Old Adobe Hotel in Las Vegas, New Mexico and Jesse James signed the register at the hotel when he stayed there in 1879. This is amazing stuff. Thanks Greg!

Frank Cole

Frank said...

Nice try. But I don't sign my posts as "Frank Cole", you lousy imposter. ;-)

Tess and Youtube alone debunked that photo. Where's the supposed signature? Where was this confirmed by a governor? Jesse's whereabouts and real photo alone crush this claim.

Jesse and the men claimed to be in the photo weren't young men and/or boys during 1879 -- hence why this image doesn't match historically accepted photos. Jesse as a "deputy". lol You're retarded.


Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?

Still no proof, fraud. Your image isn't who you say they are. That's a fact. :-)

Frank said...

"This Mr. Ellison's usual technique. Rather than defend or explain his identifications and research, he attacks the person questioning. You have a long and varied history of mis- identified photographs. Put the dog to rest-- post your entire analysis here on the photograph, so all can see.

Mr. Ellison apparently has no other analysis of this particular photograph. Wouldn't it have been simple to copy and post it here and silence me that way... IF only the research and evidence existed!"

The truth shall set you free, fraud. :-)

El_T said...

dudes, the picture isnt the real deal obviously and the lack of proof says it all. the story is total bs. you see a bunch of these fakes across the web and people still pay them no mind. scrape it in the fake pile or at least until its real identity is shown someday. pass on this one.

ib said...

Frankie, my boy.

"How do [I] feel about it again ?"

Well. Pretty much the same as last turn about, pard. I don't think anybody can accuse me of having a twitchy finger.

Of course. There is just so much reiteration one can stand until one is compelled to put a wounded nag out of its misery.

I'm sure the kid would agree.

Now. I have not followed those YouTube links, nor do I intend to, quite frankly. Hardly an emporium conducive to the collation of sound empirical evidence. And distinctly lacking in the academic credentials you clearly crave.

Now. I am not being so much defensive as merely reminding you that all this bickering is on my dime. I fail to what's to be gained by this persistant backbiting and mudslinging.

Take it outside the saloon and get it over and done with.

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Frank is now carrying on conversations with himself! He does this often on other forums as well which I have proven earlier on this thread. A technique I find distrubing at best!

"Frank" simply refuses to look at the evidence that is on my website about this photo. His statement as to "what governor" proves his pure ingnorance and lack of true critical thinking skills.

I must apologize for him as I know he never will and feel that he will never stop his harrassment until jailed which should be soon.

Thank you,

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Yet you have the Forum for Frauds on Delphi where you talk to yourself because you were kicked off of the official Jesse James Discussion Site for threats, harassment and running your scam. Your posting history there proves your lunacy.

You now look even more like a fool for trying to impersonate me here with your own 3rd grade typing style. lol

One of Ellison's flaws is his own hypocrisy. He doesn't have any evidence on his discredited website. He was exposed by ebay and then Brian Hicks of The Post and Courier for trying to sell a bogus image -

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch06/1106/arc11203600963.shtml

He has no documentation for the photo. His debating skills, like his research, is still severely lacking.

His photo here doesn't match historically accepted images of the men he claims those boys are either. This is why no historian or serious researcher will ever approve it or him. He'll always be denied.

Ellison can't even prove this so-called signature. He can't even present it and some proven documentation behind it.

He's clearly out of touch with history to even assume Jesse was a 'deputy". That's just laughable all by itself.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-jessejamestimeline.html

In 1879 Mary Susan James was born and The Chicago, Alton & St. Louis train at Glendale, Missouri was robbed of $40,000. 3 years later in 1882 he looked like this before he died -


http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/james15b.html

No time for deputies in Vegas with a few boys after all! So much for your fake history, crook. :-)


Ellison's criminal record is presented on Youtube at 5:57-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9YHHBXxa0

Ellison has been in trouble before for fraud. He'll be going to "jail" again before anyone else does. Now he should apologize to everyone out there he scammed and is trying to scam. Perhaps the judge will be easier on him this time.

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


Get to those answer. :-)

Frank said...

ib,

I do apologize for arguing on your forum. I appreciate that you allow us to post here.

However, I also feel it's important to weed the facts from fiction in this case. I think people have the right to know the historical truth of the matter and to know the actions and reputation of the guy behind the photo as well.

The photo works well on its own. Just not as something it's pretended to be. Ellison should be more honest here. That's all.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hello Greg,

I’m a big fan of photos from the old West and I’ve been following the discussion about your picture. It’s an interesting item! I also went to your website to get more information. I note that you give some good historical background about Las Vegas and also said;

“I have done an enormous amount of research on this photo and am still in the process of identifying these men but I am 99% sure they are who I have identified them as being.”

I would be interested in seeing the rest of your research and respectfully ask if there is any reason as to why that is not on your website?

Thank You,

Stephen Wilson

Greg Ellison said...

ib,

Frank is the fiction on this forum!

He obviously doesn't understand that it has never been stated that this image is 100% identified just as it has never been proven that Jesse James was ever involved in any robbbery.

Brian Hicks will not talk to him or his buddies to this day because of the fraud they perpetrated on him at the Charleston Post and Courier.

Grow up Frank and join the rest of us!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

That doesn't matter if it's %100, scammer. What matters is you labeling it and pushing it out there as something it's not. That's the issue here. Ignoring your agenda (scam) won't make it go away.

:-)

You got busted on ebay for trying to sell a fake and Brian Hicks, along with everyone else there exposed you for fraud-- just as you're attempting with the rest of your bogus images.

Same old crook. Same old story. Take your own advice and practice honesty for once.

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* Get to those answers. What are you afraid of?

:-)

Greg Ellison said...

Where is Frank's common sense?

Where is Frank's degree in anything?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes my facts about Jesse, Doc and Billy being in Las Vegas at the same time?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes Scott Moore being Jesse James' childhood friend and the report in The Daily Optic in 1879 that says Jesse stayed at his hotel in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that Governor Otero and Dr. Hoyt lied in their books about Jesse and Billy meeting in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that the room in my photo doesn't fit known architecture of the area?

Where is Frank's proof that the white flags and badge worn by these men are insignificant?

Why has Frank been removed from Delphi Forums over forty times and can not post on other forums and that is why he is here, his last great hope? Bob Boze Bell, owner of True West Magazine, refuses his nonsense now and monitors his post to prevent his silly nonsense!

You lose Frank!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

lol You don't have any facts and the facts of history disprove your claim just as Tess and I pointed out and proven by the State of Missouri! The fact that you don't have any proof for the photo clearly proves you're a liar.

:-)

Where is your proof that Jesse James was in Las Vegas?

Where is it proven that Jesse became a deputy?

Where is it proven what the white sashes meant?

Where is the documentation from the Governor and Dr. Hoyt? Why haven't you provided any of this on your scam site? Your research is still extremely lacking. Very telling indeed.

:-)

Like Bernie pointed out, your photo of those boys could have been taken in Canada for all anyone knows. You have no date and you have nothing even connecting anything of this photo to Jesse James, The Governor or Las Vegas! Durr dee durr, crook! Time to wake up!

Why have you been removed from Delphi, True West, ebay, BJ's Tombstone site and every other legitimate historical site? They all have your number. Your bad reputation is quite obvious to all -- just like respected historian Chuck Rabas pointed out. Remember when he denied your collection? Everyone had a good laugh at you when you tried to cling to him as if he was your last hope. ;-)

Check Bob Boze Bell's friends list. You'll see I'm still on there. Where are you to be found though, scammer? You were defeated and banned by him and moderator Soapy Smith. Remember? Reality check, church janitor!

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* Get to those answers. What are you afraid of? Thus far, you're still losing.

:-)

Greg Ellison said...

Frank,

Chuck Rabas has been silenced due to your assinine comments about him. He refuted you and your Youtube video's! He is one of the ones that wishes they had never heard of you!

"Durr dee durr"...You are sounding like Carol Holmes again!

Greg Ellison

Greg Ellison said...

Frank Cole,

Since you couldn't prove your real name how do you defend your Fake Names being banned by the staff of Delphi forums so many times?

The short list:

• Aliasjones Oct-25
• FrankCole_3_ Oct-24
• Frank_Cole_1 Oct-24
• wildwomack Oct-24
• FrankCole_1_ Oct-23
• FrankCole1_ Oct-23
• FrankCole__1 Oct-23
• FrankCole__5 Oct-22
• KY_Bookman Oct-22
• FrankCole_5 Oct-22
• Frank_Cole5 Oct-22
• Frank_Cole4 Oct-21
• FrankCole_3 Oct-21
• FrankCole_1 Oct-19
• FrankCole_9 Oct-19
• FrankCole9 Oct-18
• GibMoore Oct-17
• FibMoore Oct-14
• Frank_Cole1 Oct-14
• Frank_Cole8 Oct-13
• FrankCole_8 Oct-12
• FrankCole8 Oct-12
• FrankCole7 Oct-12
• DallasHuntmc Oct-11
• Frank_Cole_2 Oct-9
• Cump (merritt9) Oct-7

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Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

Chuck supported the truthful Youtube videos. His comment is still on there after all! After he denied your bogus collection, you threw a fit and degraded the man. Class act! And you wonder why you're not welcome and liked anywhere.

:-(

You think I'm Carol, eh? That's cute. Still suffering from paranoia, Greggy?

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* No more excuses. The people here want some answers.

:-)

Frank said...

Greg Ellison aka Missouri Crook,

Since you couldn't prove your real name (or this photo), how do you defend your Fake Names being banned by the staff of Delphi forums, True West, BJ's Tombstone, etc. so many times?

The short list:

• CrowHance Oct-25
• CrowHance_3_ Oct-24
• Crow_Hance_1 Oct-24
• Tombstone_Annie Oct-24
• CrowHance_1_ Oct-23
• CrowHance1_ Oct-23
• CrowHance__1 Oct-23
• CrowHance __5 Oct-22
• KY_Jelly Oct-22
• Zeke_5 Oct-22
• Zeke_Hance5 Oct-22
• Zeke_154 Oct-21
• Crow_E3 Oct-21
• Nut_Sack1 Oct-19
• Fisting_Firemen9 Oct-19
• Zeke69 Oct-18
• Gimme_More Oct-17
• Dont_Turn_Around Oct-14
• Ted_Knows1 Oct-14
• Jesz_Man8 Oct-13
• Brown_Eye8 Oct-12
• Never_2_L8 Oct-12
• Peaches7 Oct-12
• DallasHunting Oct-11
• Greg_Does_Dallas2 Oct-9
• Spread(parkay9) Oct-7

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Greg Ellison said...

Frank,

You are the only one I see throwing a fit! It is truly childish that you don't acknowledge the evidence presented about the men in the photo! Why would anyone believe anything else you have said when it is obvious that you lie a cheat at everything? The fact is they don't! Your so-called friends stopped backing you up for that very reason! You removed Chuck Rabas's postings against you and you know it! That is why it shows four post when there are only two, LIAR! Nuff Said!

Greg Ellison

Greg Ellison - Forever said...

Nice list of fake names you made up there, Frank! You have just shown us all that you are the master of fake names since none of those have ever been used by me! I see you got a few perverted ones in there as well that goes right along with all of the porn and death threats you have posted al over the internet! Great job! LIAR! Nuff Said!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

If there was ANY evidence, you would have shown some by now. Thus far, you have not. You keep evading and dodging simple questions. You provide no research but some story you concocted yourself. Speaking of "childish". Jesse's real history and image from the State of Missouri proves you wrong anyway. :-)

Why have you not answered simple questions from everyone here? You lied about this photo and you're trying to commit fraud. That's "cheating", you pathetic hypocrite. Everyone can see that for a fact. :-)

Chuck's posting is still on that Youtube video. This about you and your scam with misidentified images. You're the one in question here. Not I. ;-)

All anyone has to do is see you insult and degrade Chuck in your frauds forum after he denied you. Poor little Gweggy didn't get his way and he threw a fit. Happens all the time. :-)

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* No more excuses. The people here want some answers. Get to it, you ignorant old fool. :-)

Frank said...

lol "Nuff said?" What are you, 10?

Nice names you made up as well. Only the list I presented is real and yours is not. After all, go to ebay, Delphi, True West, BJ's Tombstone Discussion, etc. and all members there will confirm your fake names, threats and harassment.

:-)

You're obsessed with porn. That's why you posted it on your frauds forum and that's why you left it up so you and your perverted members could take a look at it here and there. You've got some problems there, sicko. Why even bring such an issue to this site? Way to insult ib!

You lied and this photo in question along with your behavior, bad reputation and your other bogus images proves so. This is all confirmed. Thanks for exposing yourself yet again. :-)

Again -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* No more excuses. The people here want some answers. Get to it, Porn King!

Greg Ellison said...

Frank, Grow up you childish peon!

Where is Frank's common sense?

Where is Frank's degree in anything?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes my facts about Jesse, Doc and Billy being in Las Vegas at the same time?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes Scott Moore being Jesse James' childhood friend and the report in The Daily Optic in 1879 that says Jesse stayed at his hotel in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that Governor Otero and Dr. Hoyt lied in their books about Jesse and Billy meeting in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that the room in my photo doesn't fit known architecture of the area?

Where is Frank's proof that the white flags and badge worn by these men are insignificant?

Why has Frank been removed from Delphi Forums over forty times and can not post on other forums and that is why he is here, his last great hope? Bob Boze Bell, owner of True West Magazine, refuses his nonsense now and monitors his post to prevent his silly nonsense!

You lose Frank!

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

Wow. All that bluster and babble and you're still incapable of answering simple questions or showing any sort of proof, research or documentation for your claims. This is why everyone denies and questions you.

But I'll go through this again since you lack reading comprehension -

You don't have any facts and the facts of history disprove your claim just as Tess and I pointed out and proven by the State of Missouri! The fact that you don't have any proof for the photo clearly proves you're a liar.

You're clearly out of touch with history to even assume Jesse was a "deputy". That's just laughable and STUPID all by itself. lol

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-jessejamestimeline.html

In 1879 Mary Susan James was born and The Chicago, Alton & St. Louis train at Glendale, Missouri was robbed of $40,000. 3 years later in 1882 he looked like this before he died -

http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/james15b.html

No time for deputies in Vegas with a few boys after all! So much for your fake history, crook. :-)

So,

Where is your proof that Jesse James was in Las Vegas?

Where is it proven that Jesse became a deputy?

Where is it proven what the white sashes meant?

Where is the documentation from the Governor and Dr. Hoyt? Why haven't you provided any of this on your scam site? Your research is still extremely lacking. Very telling indeed.

:-)

Like Bernie pointed out, your photo of those boys could have been taken in CANADA for all anyone knows. You have no date and you have nothing even connecting anything of this photo to Jesse James, The Governor or Las Vegas! Durr dee durr, crook!

Check Bob Boze Bell's friends list. You'll see I'm still on there and posting on the site just nicely. Where are you to be found though, scammer? You were defeated and banned by him and moderator Soapy Smith. Remember? Reality check.

Again for the scammer -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* Get to those answers, fraud. What are you afraid of? Thus far, you're still losing.

:-)

Anonymous said...

Hello again Greg,

This is my previous post which I'm afraid has become lost in the spirited discussion that followed. With that thought in mind I'm poswting it again.

I’m a big fan of photos from the old West and I’ve been following the discussion about your picture. It’s an interesting item! I also went to your website to get more information. I note that you give some good historical background about Las Vegas and also said;

“I have done an enormous amount of research on this photo and am still in the process of identifying these men but I am 99% sure they are who I have identified them as being.”

I would be interested in seeing the rest of your research and respectfully ask if there is any reason as to why that is not on your website?

Thank You,

Stephen Wilson

Greg Ellison said...

CRY FRANK CRY!

Frank, Grow up you childish peon!

Where is Frank's common sense?

Where is Frank's degree in anything?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes my facts about Jesse, Doc and Billy being in Las Vegas at the same time?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes Scott Moore being Jesse James' childhood friend and the report in The Daily Optic in 1879 that says Jesse stayed at his hotel in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that Governor Otero and Dr. Hoyt lied in their books about Jesse and Billy meeting in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that the room in my photo doesn't fit known architecture of the area?

Where is Frank's proof that the white flags and badge worn by these men are insignificant?

Why has Frank been removed from Delphi Forums over forty times and can not post on other forums and that is why he is here, his last great hope? Bob Boze Bell, owner of True West Magazine, refuses his nonsense now and monitors his post to prevent his silly nonsense!

You lose Frank!

Greg Ellison

Greg Ellison said...

Stephen Wilson,

Thank you for the compliment and I am sorry that I missed your earlier post. Frank takes up so much of the discussion that others are lost in his silly nonsense.

I am sure you are aware that websites are limited to space and most history websites as mine do not post their entire library of information. Much of the information I have is either copyrighted or nonpublished therefore I am unable to present it on the website. If you would contact me through my website I can share more of the information with you.

Thank you again,

Greg Ellison

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

Still projecting I see. Still can't answer simple questions either. You'd rather run, dodge and evade them. Typical ploy of a fraud and blatant liar.

:-)


Again -

All that bluster and babble and you're still incapable of answering simple questions or showing any sort of proof, research or documentation for your claims. This is why everyone denies and questions you.

But I'll go through this again since you lack reading comprehension -

You don't have any facts and the facts of history disprove your claim just as Tess and I pointed out and proven by the State of Missouri! The fact that you don't have any proof for the photo clearly proves you're a liar.

You're clearly out of touch with history to even assume Jesse was a "deputy". That's just laughable and STUPID all by itself. lol

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-jessejamestimeline.html

In 1879 Mary Susan James was born and The Chicago, Alton & St. Louis train at Glendale, Missouri was robbed of $40,000. 3 years later in 1882 he looked like this before he died -

http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/james15b.html

No time for deputies in Vegas with a few boys after all! So much for your fake history, crook. :-)

So,

Where is your proof that Jesse James was in Las Vegas?

Where is it proven that Jesse became a deputy?

Where is it proven what the white sashes meant?

Where is the documentation from the Governor and Dr. Hoyt? Why haven't you provided any of this on your scam site? Your research is still extremely lacking. Very telling indeed.

:-)

Like Bernie pointed out, your photo of those boys could have been taken in CANADA for all anyone knows. You have no date and you have nothing even connecting anything of this photo to Jesse James, The Governor or Las Vegas! Durr dee durr, crook!

Check Bob Boze Bell's friends list. You'll see I'm still on there and posting on the site just nicely. Where are you to be found though, scammer? You were defeated and banned by him and moderator Soapy Smith. Remember? Reality check.

Again for the scammer -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* Get to those answers, fraud. What are you afraid of? Thus far, you're still losing.

:-)

Frank said...

Stephen Wilson,

See what I mean? More excuses because he doesn't have any answers for his unethical and dishonest claims. His behavior is very telling.

He won't provide any answers because he simply has nothing supporting the claim or the photo. Instead he'd rather you engage him in personal email so he can bully and harass you for not believing --just as he's done to everyone that exposed his fraud.

This isn't a person of logic or reason as everyone can see.

Funny as hell that he STILL can't provide any sort of research or documentation. Frauds will be frauds.

Greg Ellison said...

CRY FRANK CRY!

Here is your simple Proof that you childishly deny!

Frank, Grow up you childish peon!

Where is Frank's common sense?

Where is Frank's degree in anything?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes my facts about Jesse, Doc and Billy being in Las Vegas at the same time?

Where is Frank's proof that refutes Scott Moore being Jesse James' childhood friend and the report in The Daily Optic in 1879 that says Jesse stayed at his hotel in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that Governor Otero and Dr. Hoyt lied in their books about Jesse and Billy meeting in Las Vegas?

Where is Frank's proof that the room in my photo doesn't fit known architecture of the area?

Where is Frank's proof that the white flags and badge worn by these men are insignificant?

Why has Frank been removed from Delphi Forums over forty times and can not post on other forums and that is why he is here, his last great hope? Bob Boze Bell, owner of True West Magazine, refuses his nonsense now and monitors his post to prevent his silly nonsense!

You lose Frank!

Greg Ellison

C. Rabas said...

I DO NOT ENDORSE FRANK COLE AND CONSIDER HIM A TOTAL LUNATIC, FRAUD AND PERVERT!

Frank said...

Missouri Crook,

Still throwing a fit! Still can't answer simple questions either. You'd rather run, dodge and evade them. Typical ploy of a fraud and blatant liar.

:-)


Again -

All that bluster and babble and you're still incapable of answering simple questions or showing any sort of proof, research or documentation for your claims. This is why everyone denies and questions you.

But I'll go through this again since you lack reading comprehension -

You don't have any facts and the facts of history disprove your claim just as Tess and I pointed out and proven by the State of Missouri! The fact that you don't have any proof for the photo clearly proves you're a liar.

You're clearly out of touch with history to even assume Jesse was a "deputy". That's just laughable and STUPID all by itself. lol

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-jessejamestimeline.html

In 1879 Mary Susan James was born and The Chicago, Alton & St. Louis train at Glendale, Missouri was robbed of $40,000. 3 years later in 1882 he looked like this before he died -

http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/james15b.html

No time for deputies in Vegas with a few boys after all! So much for your fake history, crook. :-)

So,

Where is your proof that Jesse James was in Las Vegas?

Where is it proven that Jesse became a deputy?

Where is it proven what the white sashes meant?

Where is the documentation from the Governor and Dr. Hoyt? Why haven't you provided any of this on your scam site? Your research is still extremely lacking. Very telling indeed.

:-)

Like Bernie pointed out, your photo of those boys could have been taken in CANADA for all anyone knows. You have no date and you have nothing even connecting anything of this photo to Jesse James, The Governor or Las Vegas! Durr dee durr, crook!

Check Bob Boze Bell's friends list. You'll see I'm still on there and posting on the site just nicely. Where are you to be found though, scammer? You were defeated and banned by him and moderator Soapy Smith. Remember? Reality check.

Again for the scammer -

Where's the documentation for this photo?

Where does it state where it was taken?

When was it taken?

Where's the proof?

Where's the provenance?

Where's Ellison's degree in facial identification?


*chirp* chirp* chirp* Get to those answers, fraud. What are you afraid of? Thus far, you're still losing.

:-)

C. Rabas said...

I DO NOT ENDORSE GREG ELLISON AND CONSIDER HIM A TOTAL LUNATIC, FRAUD AND PERVERT!

Frank said...

Stephen Wilson,

See what I mean? More excuses because he doesn't have any answers for his unethical and dishonest claims. His behavior is very telling.

He won't provide any answers because he simply has nothing supporting the claim or the photo. Instead he'd rather you engage him in personal email so he can bully and harass you for not believing --just as he's done to everyone that exposed his fraud.

This isn't a person of logic or reason as everyone can see.

Funny as hell that he STILL can't provide any sort of research or documentation. Frauds will be frauds.

Greg Ellison - The Truth Teller said...

Frank,

Chuck has your number now!

You are a loser and a fraud in every sense of the word and you have proven it here for all to see!

Bye Bye!

Greg Ellison

ib said...

Comments are now closed.